In conversation with Kameshwar Chaupal on 'Prabhu Shri Ram: Key to Social Integration'

“Mark my words, this work for the cause of Prabhu Shri Ram would bring a revolutionary change in the society,’ says a Kameshwar Chaupal , who belongs to Scheduled Caste community and trustee of the Shri Ram Janmabhoomi Teerth Kshetra Trust. In this interview with `Unheard Voices’ ahead of the installation of the idol at the Prabhu Shriram temple at Ayodhya, the VHP joint general secretary in charge of Bihar’s tribal-dominated districts, who hails from Bihar’s Mithila region and who laid the temple’s first brick at the Sheelanyas site, tells how he has experienced the Prabhu Shri Ram temple movement is bridging fissures in Hindu society. Read on...

 

 

 

UNHEARD VOICES: - The day 9th November 1989 is a very important day because the foundation stone of Shri Ram Temple was laid by you on that day. Some people think it symbolises a new India. What is your take on it?

 

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: - Personally, for me, it is an unforgettable moment. Wide gaps prevailed between my community and other cross sections of the society. On the day on which I was given the opportunity to lay the foundation stone (Sheelanyas), I felt the sages (Sants) honoured me and my community in the same manner in which Prabhu Shri Ram had restored the honour of Devi Ahilya. I could see a major social transformation happening and a powerful message being spread. There is a perception that the Hindu community cannot take a stand against the perversities that had sneaked into it in the Middle Ages. However, with lakhs of sages (Sants) from across the country deciding at the Dharma Sansad that a person belonging to the depressed classes would lay the foundation stone at the birthplace of Lord Shri Ram, was a sea change, a giant leap to vitalise the stagnated society and a ray of hope that the fissures in the society can be bridged.

 

 

Thanks to the positive initiative, over a dozen Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh activists (Pracharaks) have come forward from the hostel where I studied. Several good, dedicated activists including myself are associated with it to this date. This could happen because of the values inculcated in us by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. The issue of a divided society had come up in the past too and Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar too expected the sages (Sant) to profess unanimously that there is no space for discrimination in the Hindu religion. Had the society woken up to it at that time, several unfortunate incidents could have been averted. The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh founded Vishwa Hindu Parishad with the same intention and now even the sages (Sants) have proclaimed the brotherhood of Hindus at the Dharma Sansad and that nobody is inferior. The message that all Hindus are equal is spreading fast. With such integrity, we would be able to bridge the fissures in society that have developed during the thousands of years of conflict.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: - What was the reaction of your family, your relatives, and your friends to you being given the opportunity to lay the foundation stone (Sheelanyas)?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: My friends were always positive because most of them are Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh activists (Swayamsevaks). My personal experience is that society too was positive. The rich, influential and educated people used to distance themselves from us. That resulted in awkwardness. When I returned home after laying the foundation stone (Sheelanyas), the village headman, Baldev Jha whom we call Baldev Babu, called on me at my house. Since I had gone out, he told my father to ask me to meet him. When my father told me that and suggested that I go to see him, I was in two minds. Since a dignified person from the village wanted to meet me, it would have been appropriate for me to visit him. However, I had several apprehensions such as where he would make me sit and how he would treat me.

 

 

Until then, we were not allowed to sit with prominent people. Customarily, we were required to sit on the floor. But I was pleasantly surprised that when I reached his house, he came forward to greet me, ushered me to the place he was sitting and offered me a seat. Moreover, he summoned all the children of the house and told them that since I was older and like a brother, they should touch my feet. Then he offered a cup of tea. I kept thinking about where I would wash my teacup. But the moment I finished my tea, he took my empty teacup. Both of us were overwhelmed. I had never received such treatment earlier. I could see the revolutionary change in society reaching our village too. Today, all the people of my village participate in celebrations of any community and share food. Those who discriminate are treated with contempt by society. Therefore, I think that the decision changed the entire society. Though our area was a forte of the socialists, only Brahmins would perform auspicious rites. When people saw the sages (Sants) taking the decision, they were disillusioned. Today, the casteist mindset has reduced in all cross sections of Hindus and the feeling of Hindutva has risen strongly.

 

 

 

 

UNHEARD VOICES: What was the social mindset in your experience before the laying of the foundation stone (Sheelanyas)?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: Before the laying of the foundation stone (Sheelanyas) we often experienced discrimination. We were not permitted to sit with, mix up with or share food with influential people. Let me recall an experience I had while in school. The schools were not public in those days. We used to run campaigns to enrol students. Teachers and students would go together to convince parents to enrol their children. During such a campaign, we had a night camp at a house where we were to have food supper too. The owner of the house whisperingly asked the teacher castes of the students accompanying him. When my caste was revealed, he was distraught. Plates to serve food to me were brought from the hamlet of the Dalits nearby. I had to sit on the ground near the door and have my meal while the teacher savoured the food inside. Such were the experiences. However, after this campaign of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, I never had any such experience or even heard of discrimination from any of my friends.

UNHEARD VOICES: Could you please tell your family background and how you came in contact with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: I was born in the erstwhile Bhagalpur district in the Mithilanchal region. Today, the district is restructured and renamed as Supaul. My birthplace was in the area affected by the Kosi River, known as the 'Sorry of Bihar’ because it brings massive floods. Educational infrastructure was non-existent in that area. When we were children, our father called a teacher, who had passed the Class 8 examination, to our village and that heralded the educational revolution in the village. Later on, I moved out of the village for further studies where initially I stayed with a relative. Subsequently, I moved in with a teacher, who shared accommodation with three to four students.

 

 

 

 

Thankfully, our teacher had a big heart and therefore I did not face any discrimination. Later on, a teacher Hriday Narayan Yadhav joined our school. He was an activist of the Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh, a member of the Congress party and also the secretary of the school. He gave the training that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh provides to three or four of us students in the name of the parade. I came to know about the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh from him. When I passed my matriculation examination, he advised me to study further and gave me a recommendation letter. Clutching that letter in my hand, I went to Madhubani.

 

 

The letter was addressed to a swayamsevak of the Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh. He helped me find accommodation at a hostel and enrolled me with a college. That was when I came to know that Hriday Narayan Babu too was an activist of the Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh. Later, Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh. Shakhas were founded at the hostel. Our shakha was extremely good. I was Gana Shikshak, Swayamsevak and even Mukhya Karyavahak of the Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh. I also participated in the protest against the emergency.

 

After the emergency was lifted, I attended Sangh Shiksha, became a Vistarak and started spreading the philosophy and network of the Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh. I worked as Tehsil Pracharak and Zilla Pracharak as full-time activist (Purna Kal Swayamsevak). Later, in 1980, I was asked to work for the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. I worked at various levels up to the Pradesh Sanghatan Mantri with Vishwa Hindu Parishad. After the laying of the foundation stone (Sheelanyas), I was asked to join politics. I worked in the political field for 12 to 14 years. I remained associated with the movement for the cause of Prabhu Shri Ram and continued to work for the Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh and Vishwa Hindu Parishad even while I was in politics. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad leadership kept me associated with the central leadership. I would attend meetings of Vishwa Hindu Parishad even in those days. In short, due to the inspiration and encouragement from the Rashtriya Swayamsek Sangh, I have been working in other fields too.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: Critics often object that the Shri Ram Janmabhoomi movement is political. Do you think the scope of the movement is vast and that it has played a major social role?

 

 

 

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: The real fact is that the people opposing us have a very strong bias against Prabhu Shri Ram and us, the people devoted to Him. So much so, they are not willing to accept even the existence of Lord Shri Ram. They go to the extent of saying that Lord Shri Ram is a myth and his existence is not a historical fact. How will they admit that society has transformed due to the movement for Lord Shri Ram? How would they admit that the people devoted to the movement for Prabhu Shri Ram are doing good work and that too effectively? However, I have experienced a social transformation. The Ram Janmabhoomi movement has reduced casteism. In Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, the states where we live, caste politics prevailed. That would result in caste conflicts. People of one caste would attack people of other castes. However, people from urban as well as rural areas, people of scheduled castes, backward classes, and upper castes, all came together due to the movement for Prabhu Shri Ram. Consequently, the people indulging in caste politics lost their strength. They are angry because of that. The visible proof of this is that the people indulging in caste politics in Bihar have been restricted to second or third place. Prabhu Shri Ram Movement has nurtured patriotism and Hindutva in the minds of people.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: This is a political point of view. What is your experience on the ground level?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: I am talking of things beyond politics. Recently a procession (Yatra) was organised in Bihar to bring a boulder from Nepal to carve out the idol for installation at the temple of Prabhu Shri Ram. I was bringing the boulder from Nepal. No propaganda was made, no posters or banners were put up, and no announcement was made using loudspeakers but it was an unprecedented procession (Yatra). People of all age groups thronged the entire route from Janakpur to Ayodhya and waited through the night to have Darshan. Devotion to Prabhu Shri Ram helped people overcome caste and language differences and unite. The first village to enter Bihar from Nepal has a predominantly Dalit population and is known for the influence of communists.

 

However, when we reached there, we found out that all roads in the village had been washed spotlessly clean and decorated with garlands. The place where the chariot carrying the boulder was to be parked overnight had been decorated with flowers. This scene made the journalists accompanying us so emotional that their eyes welled up with tears. If a boulder from which the idol of Prabhu Shri Ram is to be carved gives rise to such affection, devotion, and harmony among people, no wonder that the entire nation got united for the cause of Prabhu Shri Ram. This is no political phenomenon.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: Though the Ram janmabhoomi movement has reduced the inequality, and discrimination in Hindu society, some say it is symbolic. What is your take on this?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: Those who are raising doubts are pained deeply in their hearts because their conspiracy to divide based on castes has failed. The number of Brahmins was almost negligible among the people travelling in the chariot during the procession. Most of the people, who travelled from Janakpur to Ayodhya with the chariot belonged to the depressed community and members of backward classes. Nobody thought of caste. Everybody felt that Prabhu Shri Ram helped them overcome the hate. The devotion to Prabhu Shri Ram bridges the gaps and people belonging to all cross sections of the society mix up, sit together, and work shoulder to shoulder. Prabhu Shri Ram once invoked such unity and now the organisations working for the cause of Prabhu Shri Ram are doing the same. Prabhu Shri Ram, in his lifetime, obtained unanimous support from people belonging to the depressed classes, spread the feeling of oneness and made them self-confident. With the support of women and distressed classes, he gained victory over Ravana, the mighty terrorist of his time. Thus, people have now become confident that the name of Prabhu Shri Ram can unite the distressed people and the legacy of Prabhu Shri Ram can bring Ram Rajya to this nation.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: As a trustee of the Shri Ram Janmabhoomi Teerth Kshetra Trust, what are your plans to ensure that this atmosphere prevails in future too? How this social message be reflected in the daily rituals and other programmes being organised at the temple?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: Ensuring that Prabhu Shri Ram remains at the depth of the heart of the people is essential for the purpose. We cannot follow the ideals of Prabhu Shri Ram unless we are devoted to Him. People are now getting devoted to Prabhu Shri Ram. When one devotes himself to Prabhu Shri Ram, he follows His ideals. Thus, the entire society will follow the ideals of Prabhu Shri Ram. People belonging to all cross sections of the society are engaged in the work of constructing the Ram temple. Dalits and people belonging to backward classes are engaged in the work in such large numbers that newspapers have carried reports that the people belonging to the backward classes have taken over the entire work.

 

 

 

 

The people who felt they would be able to engineer fissures in the society in the name of caste are becoming restless. Nobody would be able to distract the people now. The tendencies and behaviour of people are changing. Now when people go on pilgrimage, they realise that the aggressors could violate our temples and our dignity because we were divided. The movement for the cause of Lord Shri Ram has bridged fissures in society effectively. With such an atmosphere prevailing, the devotees of Prabhu Shri Ram would embrace the Dalits and members of backward classes and say we are all brothers. They would reach out to the poor mothers in the society the way Prabhu Shri Ram reached out to Mata Shabari. People are already getting united. People have now understood that Prabhu Shri Ram became the legend that he is because he reached out to the depressed, distressed members of the society.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: Do you feel the temple of Prabhu Shri Ram at Ayodhya is a symbol of society’s integrity?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: The temple and the name of Prabhu Shri Ram is the key to doing away the social inequalities and ushering in equality. Our children used to enjoy picnics on January 1. This year, on January 1, a total of 1 lakh 37 thousand youths arrived at the temple of Prabhu Shri Ram for darshan and resolved to follow the ideals of Prabhu Shri Ram in their lives. Today the youth is making a beeline at the temple. This shows that in days to come, more and more people will adopt the ideals of Prabhu Shri Ram and it will end inequality.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: This means the movement for the temple of Prabhu Shri Ram has given a major boost to the work of removing inequality...

 

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: We still have to do a lot of work for social integration. I do not feel that social inequality has been done away with. However, the work for the cause of Prabhu Shri Ram has given a major thrust. People would adopt the principle of social integrity.

 

UNHEARD VOICES: You explained how you have experienced that the work for the cause of Lord Shri Ram is uniting the people. Do the people at the grassroots level have the same feeling?

 

KAMESHWAR CHAUPAL: Recently Samarpan Abhiyan was held. I visited a couple of places in Bihar to launch the Samarpan Abhiyan. When we went there, we visited the colonies of the people at the lowest strata of the society like the conservancy staff. The people, when they came to know we were approaching for the cause of Prabhu Shri Ram, cleaned and washed all the streets to welcome us. They were overwhelmed. They displayed such generosity that if a woman approached us to contribute Rs 100, her husband too offered us Rs 1,000, the amount he had borrowed from someone, insisting that we should accept the entire amount both were offering together. Seeing this, I came to believe Mata Shabari is still alive, waiting for someone like Lord Shri Ram to reach out to her. And, many followers of Prabhu Shri Ram are now coming forward to reach out to such Mata Shabaris waiting for them. Mark my words, this work for the cause of Lord Shri Ram would bring a revolutionary change in society.

 

 

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